Comments - Latest Popular Stories, Instablogs Community by Celsoldc

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Hehe.. You shouldn’t thank me. I only helped a little in helping you cross from Portuguese to English. ;)

But there are some things I don’t understand with this phenomenon.

Can the PCC really approximate the strength that the FARC had before the US helped to decimate it?

I’m trying to imagine the size and strength of the PCC, and by how you describe it, it is already a national threat!

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Sure I have to thank you! Therefore: thank you!

In Brazil, no other group was able to has the strength that PCC has. First because the leaders are already in jail and from there they coordinate actions (meaning that they are not afraid of being arrested). Though it’s not possible yet to determinate the number of member, PCC may have at least 10 000 men only in Sao Paulo.

Controlling cocaine traffick in Sao Paulo means that they control the most important cocaine’s route in Brazil.

Besides, they control robbery, kidnaps, gambling, even prostitution in some areas.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Celso, are you actually saying that Sao Paulo is becoming a narco-state?

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

I get the feeling this is like Japan’s Yakuza or maybe even the Mafia.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Nope. What I meant was that the major criminal in Sao Paulo have joined their forces to organise an ”union” that wants to monopolize violence in Sao Paulo and in Brazil.

The level of organisation is incredible. Their actions are very well planned. If you actually read the statute in Portuguese you can detect words and expressions that are used by educate people, so not expected from criminals.

Sao Paulo is concentrating the criminal bosses, as well had already concentrated other ”industries” in Brazil.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

And yes Grace. They are very alike Yakuza or Italian Mafia.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

I cannot seem to believe that a group from prisons can organize nationally. It brings Brazilian law enforcement and penal system under a very shaky light.

I have a feeling that this group has some padrino from the people in higher places. Sure, I’ve seen how drug trade can be conducted from behind bars, but the PCC is doing it nationally!

So, they must have ”sponsors” or protection from higher places.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

You bet they have! How is possible for those high level criminal keep in touch with each other?

Sure, at the beginning, they were all in the same jail (a very stupid thing to do!), but they have 8 years to create a structure on the criminal world. Alliences, negotiations, etc. Druglords that before wnated to kill each other, suddenly became ”allies”.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

You mean, all the major criminal elements in Sao Paulo banded together to form the PCC?

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Not all, but the majority is. And the PCC is making the same thing in other states, coopting criminal to join them.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

That means they have no competition! :)

I am just amazed that a criminal group has a statute and acts like a brotherhood. They are just like rebels, insurgents, and radicals, hehe..

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

If you dig the language, you’ll see some cultural aspects that cannot be ignored: it sounds like a Hugo Chavez’s speech,very populist.

But what that means? It means that they really know how to recruit new criminals, because that kind of speech is very popular and emotional. They got some help, someone(s) who is able to bound with people.

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

These ’sponsors’ are none other than certain political parties. They help each other during times of their crises. I”m sure the politicians of Brazil are in someway related to the PCC for coca seems to be really lucrative.

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

This PCC reminds me of the Naxalites in India who also borrow bits of ideas and inspiration from Karl Marx and carry out attacks on police. In fact, the Naxalite menace in India is very serious, as serious as the trouble caused by the radicals.

Well, Most of these organizations always depend upon noble ideas to inspire alienated individuals and manipulate them to carry out attacks on the larger society. The guidelines and the ’brotherhood’, ’justice against oppression’, ’equality’ etc are words used by most dangerous organizations which carry out criminal activities and also need to inspire the members to do the same..

If the police have been incapable of protecting themselves against the PCC, i wouldn’t blame them. it really is difficult to combat with organized gangs at a national level. It is not as easy as fighting common robbers etc.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Yes Jaidude! The organisation level of this group is not the same of a ”gang”. It’s like a underground army.

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Yes! That’s the word! an underground army. The Naxals consider themselves a military/political organization working towards the equality of the society. And in PCC’s case, its not just politics or military aspects that are involved, but also the issue of drugs. And that is of course a very lucrative business.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

That’s the scary thing. There is a very thin dividing line between radical fervor and plain criminality.

Do the two concepts usually go together? One seems to be the other’s cover-up. It’s like the Abu Sayyaf here who is posing as radical Islamists but are plain goons and thugs. Or the Taliban, another radical group, that exacts 10% tax from Afghan poppy farmers.

Which is the real thing? The political/patriotic thing or the criminal personality of the group?

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

These are a group of criminals which started the Primeiro Comando da Capital after the masscre of the 111 prisoners, if I understood. Strangely they also seem to take money from the members right? I wonder if they are in any way related to the Amigos dos Amigos of Rio.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Well, it’s crime disguised as brotherhood. The rules and ”moral values” are just a way to manipulate those who are subordinates.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

They thrive on hatred for Brazil’s military police. Understandably, because they were/are treated harshly inside those prisons.

They are, therefore, anti-establishment.

Michael C

Michael C — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Very informative stuff here!!

Thanks Celso.

Just a couple of questions, if you can help,

How powerful are they on the ”Pan South American” crime scene?

How do they rate on a worldwide level?

Thanks

Michael

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

They have those powerful groups because most cocaine in the world is produced here.

For instance, Bolivians or Colombians produce, but they don’t have access to the Atlantic, therefore they need a Brazilian connection to send cocaine to Europe and Africa.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Besides, I rather tend to think that the Yakuza and the Mafia have no political/radical/patriotic fervor. They are just unabashedly criminal. No pretentions.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

The same here. The PCC leaders are manipulating their subordinates, like religion does.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Is it also because Brazil is a powerful police-state that is why there are such ”radicalized” anti-establishment groups?

The PCC only targets the military police, right? They are not completely terroristic.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

In their attacks in 2006, PCC members tried to hurt/kill only police, other law and order agents.

But the fact is that they kidnap, steal and kill anyone. ”Civilians” are their food.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Oh. OK. Terrorists, then. Like how the FARC became.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Police here acts here like we were in a dictatorship yet.

Human Rights here are like a dream. In prisions the situation is even worse, because 70% of prisioners have tuberculosis, hepatitis or AIDS.

The PCC protect them from abuses, but only the members.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Criminals that sometimes use terrorists tactics.

Michael C

Michael C — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

You’re right, Grace. They are, moreover, just like all terrorists (as in ”those who terrorise people without state authority”.

(Ok Ok, what’s state authority? LOL?!)

Excellent evening to you...

Michael

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

So we have criminals which use terrorist tactics to not only control the prison but also terrorize the populace and the authorities. The authorities in my opinion would be corrupt themselves, for an organiation like that to grow so big.

It is surprising that a prison soccer team could go so far and recruit paying members, have illicit trade networks with the FARC and also the Red Command of Rio. South American nations are connected to one another in some way. Though they are independent countries, something that happens in Bolivia will affect Brail and so will something in Columbia. call it the bond established by coca.

Caught between the corrupt officials and an organization whose word is law in prisons and in favelas, things are only gonna get more violent, I guess.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Brazilian military police aren’t scared, Jai! Have you seen pics of their ammunition? It’s like assault operations all the time! LOL

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

While exist such uneven society, that’s the true.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

This is common in Sao Paulo streets.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Is that an UZI?

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

okie.. so the police are pretty well equipped but still so many were killed by the PCC. As you guys already have said, extreme force and a militarized police always causes dissent among the convicts. However, this time they didn’t just fight the police but also joined hands with the FARC and other terrorist organizations..

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

After 200 6 attacks, the paulista police bought more and more weapons like AK 47 and UZIs.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Why they grew to be so big?

The police must have been looking the other way! LOL

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Now look at this one.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Blame from the government itself that the overcrowded prisons in the 80’s and 90’s, without building new ones.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Here, we call such operations as ’sona.’

Saturation drives. Also known as police brutality! LOL

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

I was referring to the pic immediately above.

Here, we call those ’saturation drives’ or ’sona.’

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Which brings us to another insight. The police doesn’t really know the underbelly of the crime world. If they do, crime syndicates wouldn’t really balloon, would they?

That happens here, too. And from I read, it happens in India, too.

Armed criminal syndicates grow big and strong, and populate themselves at an alarming speed, because of failure of intelligence.

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Of course they knew all about it. But at the time, other things were happening here: crisis in Malaysia, Mexico, Turkey, Russia and Korea had vanished financial resources from Brazil.

Things were bad during the 80’s, but at the 90’s it was a nightmare.

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

In India however, intelligence doesn’t fail, they actively participate with the underworld.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

But how ’bad’ is the PCC now? Is it getting worse?

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

The paulista police and federal police are watching it close, so the PCC is doing things nice and easily.

I guess the leaders don’t want another open conflict.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

You think the PCC will even get bigger than they are right now? Oh yeah, you gave a prognosis that they can replace the FARC...

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

In Sao Paulo PCC is very well set, now is getting bigger and bigger in all Brazil.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Well, give them competition and they won’t get that big. They’re getting bigger only because they have the monopoly of the crime world. A competition will decimate them.

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Sometimes it is necessary to fight violence with violence. Humans are anyway self destructive..

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Humans should die painfully and slowly!

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

You two are sociopaths.

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Pain can purify our minds..

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

HUH?

LOL

Celso Camargo

Celso Camargo — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Behind good intentions and good thought there are hate and betrayal.

Jaiyant Cavale

Jaiyant Cavale — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Humans have always been motivated by the death instinct more than the life instinct. That is exactly why our species is so violent and destructive, and self destructive as well.

Grace Calderon

Grace Calderon — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:00:00 +0000

Guyana!